Detavio Samuels, CEO at REVOLT

Kerel  0:08  

We want to welcome all of our listeners to another episode of Minority Report Podcast with Erik and Kerel. Each episode we talk with leaders in business, tech, and media. And today we have an awesome guest joining us, Detavio Samuels who is the CEO at REVOLT. Detavio, what's going on my man?

Detavio Samuels  0:27  

What's good, king? Thanks for having me.

Kerel  0:29  

Absolutely. Thanks for joining us. Super excited about this conversation. I definitely want to dig into all that's going on with REVOLT these days, your background, but I have to start here. Tell us how was The Summit? It was just, what, a week or so ago? A week and a half ago? Tell us about it.

Detavio Samuels  0:47  

Yes, Summit was probably, at this point in time, nine days ago. The Summit did exactly what it is supposed to do. What makes The Summit unique is that it is not a concert festival, it is not a boring conference, it is a place where our future leaders and the next generation get access to real opportunities in real time that they wouldn't get anywhere else. So I'm always saying, like, I'm watching kids get hired, hired on the spot. I'm watching people play their new single and getting picked up by people by managers. I'm watching young people build and make networks that will help them push their way forward in whatever way that they're trying to do. And so, it was so beautiful to see so many lovely black people in that space, building, bonding, connecting and creating magic. Also, what makes it unique is that a lot of the talent just kind of blends in. So in a lot of places the talent is kind of like backstage, but even here,The REVOLT Summit, like you can shoot your shot with anybody. It might be a celebrity, it might be a CEO, but just watching it happen in real time was incredible. And then the second thing that I'll say on that is we've been building this brand since I've been here over the last two plus years. And it was really amazing to see how meaningful the brand is becoming and has become to the culture. As someone who fashions themselves as a builder, it was really lovely to see the impact that we made, but how much people are in love with the REVOLT brand. One of the data points that I have is, you know, you see this merch that I have on right here, we sold out of merch before the festival ended. And that's like my, that's like my go-to, if people are willing to wear your brand on a t-shirt, then you got something and we sold out. So, dope to see the impact that was made, but then also incredible to see how the brand continues to build and grow with this audience that we are doing our best to love on every single day.

Kerel  2:40  

I love that. And speaking of building the brand and connecting that with culture, I think I read somewhere where you talked about the importance of having The Summit in Atlanta and Atlanta almost being sort of like, I don't want to misquote you, but almost being sort of like the center of black culture right now. Can you speak on that a little bit as well, too?

Detavio Samuels  2:58  

Yeah, absolutely. So, last year, this time, November 11 is when the summit was, and we announced that we would be moving to Atlanta. Atlanta actually gave us a day. So 11/11 forever is now REVOLT Day in Atlanta. And so we announced that we would be moving there, which we did in February. The reason we did that is for a couple of things. One, our Chairman Sean Combs has deep connection and deep roots within Atlanta. Two, to your point, we see Atlanta very much as kind of like the black Mecca. So much of our music that's coming out right now comes out of Atlanta. If you want to find a place with, like, the most black entrepreneurs, if you want to find a place that's the closest to a Wakanda where the Mayor is black, the Police Chief is black, the doctors are black, the lawyers are black. And so for us it was this idea that we wanted to be in a place where we were surrounded, like in a hotbed of culture, which would make access to talent and people that we wanted to work with easier. But as we are a brand and it's very much about investing into our community, knowing that we can hire black caterers easily, we can find black showrunners, black producers, all of that, was very much a part of the strategy. And so, when I talk about the success of The Summit, a lot of it is because I believe that we've been anchored in Atlanta, and they've seen us and they've heard from us over the course of the last year, which is what makes it easier for them to show up for.

Kerel  4:14  

Love it. Love it. All right. Let's take it back a little bit now. Let's talk about Detavio growing up. Tell us a little bit about where you were born, where were you raised, what was family life like growing up for you?

Detavio Samuels  4:26  

Yeah, so born in Boulder, Colorado. Which is random, I actually don't think most people ask me where I'm born. I was born in Boulder, Colorado, my mom always just says she's just black black and our family's from Chicago by way of Alabama. My father is Jamaican but was born in Costa Rica. Came to the States as a Spanish speaking, almost teenager, I think was 12 or 13 years old. So, very much grew up in a household where my mom is where I like, I get my faith from and my belief in God and my belief in the impossible and so much of how I carry myself in terms of values, I believe I get from my mom. From my father, who was also very spiritual, but he was so much about his people and his culture. When he walked through my dad's house, I didn't grow up in my dad's house, but when you walked in my dad's house, it was like a black museum, black statues, black art, black books, and so I grew up immersed in the culture. So, so much of who I am today, I think is like the mashup of those two sides - the faith based piece that keeps me going, and the love and the deep passion for my culture.

Kerel  5:31  

Gotcha. Love that. And, you know, I have to imagine, obviously, you love the job that you're doing right now, but we were both talking before, you know, we're both executives, and it can get challenging at times, right? And I'm sure that upbringing of the faith and the culture sort of keeps you grounded and keeps you moving.

Detavio Samuels  5:50  

Yeah, 1000%. I think in general, we, as black people are like the most resilient people. And when you take the most resilient people, and then you give them faith and the belief that there's a God who has things in his control and will take care, like on top of that, yes, absolutely. That's what keeps me going.

Kerel  6:05  

Awesome. Awesome. Tell us a little bit about your career journey. Doing some of my research, I looked and saw sort of where you went to school, you know, Duke, Stanford, so on and so forth. So tell us a little bit about, like, your college days and how you got into, I guess, let's call it the advertising and marketing space.

Detavio Samuels  6:23  

Absolutely. Okay, so I go to Duke back in 1998. Interesting story, I had no clue that Duke was as high of a ranked school as it actually turned out to be. I went because, first I learned about them because of the basketball team.

Kerel  6:38  

I'm gonna ask you too, who's your favorite Duke basketball player of all time?

Detavio Samuels  6:41  

Oh, just basketball player. I was gonna say, there's only one team. Okay, Duke team. I'm a fan of people who were there when I was there. Like, Jason Williams, Corey Maggette, Elton Brand, like those were really fun times. JJ Redick, yeah, those were really fun times. So, no matter who comes after them, I have an emotional connection to the people who were there when I was there. So at Duke, let's see what happens at Duke, probably a couple of things. One, I pledged Kappa, that becomes one of the most important decisions in my life because that becomes my friend and my core group for life. And these are the people who, older brothers, they may only be three years older or four years older, whatever it is, but these are the people who really helped guide me. Given that both of my parents came from the education world, they weren't prepped to help me if I was going to do anything besides teach. And so it was my Duke brothers from Kappa Alpha Psi, that were the ones that are helping me say, "No, don't go this way, go that way. You should really consider business school," that type of thing. The other thing that happened at Duke, second semester, senior year, I discover marketing for the first time. And so the way that I would, I would say that school has been for me in my past was I was never passionate about it. I was always good enough to get, you know, an A, or whatever, A-, but I was never passionate about it. Marketing is the first time when my soul is set on fire. And so that sets me in this direction that says, "Okay, I want to do what you did. I want to become a CMO." Right? As I look at CMOs, all CMOs, most of them had MBAs. And so it tells me like, I gotta go figure out how to get my MBA as quickly as possible. So I go work at Fuqua School of Business, I do a two year stint there. What it allows me to do is A) start learning, I can start sitting in classes and learning by getting my MBA education without paying. The second thing that happens is it allows me to build relationships within the admissions office, so that I can understand what it's going to take to get in the school. I was applying at 21, 22, most people apply at 25, 26. So, anyways, long story short, coming out of that stint at Fuqua, I then went to Stanford Graduate School of Business there, I did my Masters in Business and my Master's in Education. You can see this trend-line from my parents continuing, right, a love for educating and teaching our people. Stanford is where I can get, like, that entrepreneurial bug, it's when I decide that I want to be the CEO, and I want to be an entrepreneur. I come out of Stanford, and I go to Johnson & Johnson, where I do Global Marketing. Really had an incredible time, you know, I went from Belgium to Spain to Colombia to Mexico in operating rooms, watching surgeries, liposuction, neurosurgery, all of these things. It was an incredible international experience, but the rule was, you shouldn't be able to tell a marketer from a doctor. And my belief was if I wanted to become a doctor, I would have gone to med school. I don't have a passion for biology like that. And so I knew I wasn't gonna be there long.

Kerel  9:26  

Did you know even at that time, that okay, your goal was to be a CEO even at that time?

Detavio Samuels  9:32  

Yeah, because in business school, we started a company, I started a company with four other guys called Millennia. Millennia was essentially a company that helped our generation find our passions and our purpose. And so when I went to Johnson & Johnson, I was doing that during the day, but at night, I was already being my own C level executive on a startup, right? And what I really thought was going to happen was that Millenia was going to pop and I'd be able to leave Johnson & Johnson. And what happens is, after two years, Millennia hasn't popped, money is running out, and it's like, okay, I now need to figure out what am I going to do with my career? And it's at that point in time that I decided to jump into the advertising space.

Kerel  10:09  

Gotcha. Okay. One of the things that I think you said there that was very interesting, as you were at Duke, and then going to Stanford, you realize that you like marketing and you sort of looked at, "Okay, what do I need to do to be a CMO?" And one of those things was I needed to get my MBA, right? And I recall sort of a piece of advice that I got early on in my career which was, look out at the job that you want and the people that are in those roles and figure out what did they do to get to those roles, and take pieces of their game to add to yours. And it seems like you knew that very early on, and I wanted to hone in on that, for the people that are listening, that are growing up in their career, because I think that's great advice. And you just sort of walked through an example of that for yourself there.

Detavio Samuels  11:01  

Yeah, I very much believe in that. And I think in my life, I've quite often, my goals and aspirations would have had me be the anomaly. I was trying to go to business school at 23, not at 26. And so for me, it's like, not only do you have to study what did people do to get into business school at 26, but you got to go study, who are the anomalies? And would did the anomalies do to get in at 22 and 23? And so that's very much a core strategy for everything that I've done. Who are the anomalies? If I had, it's a bad example, but if a doctor told me I was sick tomorrow, and I had a 2% chance of living, all I would do is go find the 2% and study, how did they survive? What was their eating regimen? What was their health? Like, I want to know the people who are the anomalies, how they won so that I can repeat and mirror their lifestyle and success.

Kerel  11:50  

Gotcha. Okay, that's awesome. So take us through the path. How do you get to CEO at REVOLT? Tell us that journey.

Detavio Samuels  11:57  

So I go from Johnson & Johnson to working at GlobalHue. GlobalHue was owned by Don Coleman. He built an incredible business. At that point of time we were, without question, the number one multicultural agency in the nation. It was like boomerang, you know, I'm working with young, 25 to 30 year olds, we're driving business on Jeep, Dodge, Walmart, US Navy, it was an incredible moment in time. And while I'm there, I started to get tired of making 30 second commercials because nobody wants to watch them. People are now starting to skip commercials, right? So we enter into this world of branded entertainment. Long story short, that branded entertainment sets my life on fire. It's like, "Oh, I can create content that people actually want to choose to consume, and embed the marketing message in, as opposed to interrupting them with something that they don't want to see." And so that's what got me interested in media in general. So then, when Alfred Liggins and Cathy Hughes came calling, I immediately jumped at the opportunity to get into the media game because I wanted to learn how to create content that people wanted to choose to consume. And so I go work with Alfred and Kathy for six or seven years there. I run their, I build their digital practice, I create an agency, we built that out, and I ran cross platform sales for them up until April of 2020 when I make the move to REVOLT.

Kerel  13:17  

Awesome, awesome. And you make the move to REVOLT as Chief Operating Officer, right? What was that role like as well, too?

Detavio Samuels  13:26  

Yeah, so that was a really interesting role for me, because I actually don't fashion myself as like an incredible operator.

Kerel  13:32  

You don't see that much from going from CMO to Operations, right?

Detavio Samuels  13:40  

Exactly, I was gonna say, you know, I was nervous. Like I was like, I don't know that I'm the right COO type. I'm definitely much more of like a high level, big picture, kind of strategic thinker, but it didn't matter. I came, you know, my first official day was June 1st. During COVID, the current CEO actually adopted a child. And so I come on June 1, and she goes on maternity leave on July 1, and then she resigned before July is over. And so while I came into be COO, at max, I was COO for four weeks. After that, Colin who's my business partner, CFO/CEO, today, he and I started running REVOLT together. And so I've been running it since August of 2020. And then I was officially made the CEO in January of 2021.

Kerel  14:27  

Gotcha. Okay, well, again, big congrats to you and on your career path and where you are now. I have to ask, CEO, obviously, you're the face of the brand, you are involved in a lot of different things related to the company. What is maybe the most challenging part of being a CEO?

Detavio Samuels  14:47  

I actually love that question. I actually love where you started. So I'm going to answer what I want to say first, and then I'm going to think about if there's more. Being the face of a brand, I've never wanted that. It's never been my dream. It's never been something I wanted for myself. I've always been the person being comfortable in the back. In fact, I would argue that the most powerful people, the most influential people are not the people that you see out in the streets all the time, right. Like I always make the analogy, it's like the mob boss. Where does the mob boss sit? You're not sitting in the middle of the restaurant partying, he in the back in the kitchen. You know what I mean? Like, he's running the entire neighborhood. And, you know what I mean? So that's who I always wanted to be. I wanted the influence to make impact, the power to make impact, but I didn't need to be a recognizable face or a known name or brand. And so for me personally, without question, one of the biggest challenges has been stepping in to be the face of a brand. It's also difficult, it's always been difficult for me, given my age, and so what has happened in my past is people will see I was a president at GlobalHue at 30. And then when they see you trying to be the face of the brand, their belief is that you are not there for them, it's that you are there for yourself. And so I think I also, very early on, realized that in order to be an effective leader, at a young age, I was going to have to put myself all the way in the back and push everybody in front of me. And so there's nothing more uncomfortable than me now having to be out in front as well. And I try to push them as much as I can, you know what I mean, but when you're the CEO, good, bad or indifferent, it always comes your way.

Kerel  16:26  

What's the part of the job you enjoy the most? And what do you get the most satisfaction out of being the CEO?

Detavio Samuels  16:33  

The impact, the impact. Just walking through The REVOLT Summit and seeing lives change. Walking on the set of Bet on Black. I was a guest host on the final episode of Bet on Black this year. Bet on Black is like our black Shark Tank. Walking into that room and seeing 20 black entrepreneurs who didn't know each other the day before, but now they're family and rockin together. Handing one of them a $200,000 check to go invest in their business so that they can build. Like, that impact is why I wake up every single day.

Kerel  17:03  

I love that. That is special, right? When you can wake up every single day, and you're really enjoying what you do. And you know that there can be an impact. And an impact not just that impacts the bottom line, but an impact that's going to have a long lasting effect on society and change as well, too. I think that that's super important.

Detavio Samuels  17:27  

Yeah, I'm blessed. I always say that I'm, I'm not the smartest, you know, I don't have to be the brightest, but in this role, and in this space, like I'm one of the most dangerous. And I'm dangerous because of everything you just said, because I'm aligned with my passions, I'm aligned with my purpose, I'm aligned with my mission, I'm doing all the things that feed my soul. And so I'm more dangerous than anybody out there, you know what I mean? Like, I'm gonna work longer, I'm gonna work harder, not because of the work, like just because the work has to get done, but because I believe in the work. And I know the work has to get done. And I want to see the impact on the other side.

Kerel  17:59  

Love it, love it. One of the questions I want to ask you is about diversity, equity and inclusion, right? Because that is, for a lot of reasons over the last couple of years, it's a big hot topic in the business world these days, right? And you talked about The Summit a few minutes ago, and sort of the impact that The Summit has on black culture and black people and creating opportunities for people to get like hired on the spot. And when you said that I couldn't help but think of these companies who claim that they want to make an impact, but also say, "Well, I would hire more black people, but I just don't know where to go and find them." Right? And it's like, well, The Summit is a great place to go and find them.

Detavio Samuels 18:05

100%. 100%. (laughs) 10,000 of them there for you.

Right, right. And so, you know, just want to take that a little bit further about diversity, equity, inclusion in the advertising and marketing space. We have, as an industry have a long way to go. And just curious to get your thoughts and your opinions on that particular topic.

Detavio Samuels  19:12  

Yeah, look, the whole reason I come to, when I come to REVOLT, it is my last time in black owned media. I'm saying to myself, I don't think that this is a business model that can work, it's time for me to go. I'd spent from 2007 until 2020 banging my head against the wall trying to get brands to see us and I was done. I very much believed that the future of media was influencer and so my bet was if I can't make it work out of REVOLT with a Sean Combs global icon on top, it's not workable. So, when I stepped into this job, I'm thinking this is my last run because advertisers don't really believe in DE&I. Unfortunately, the murder of George Floyd is what sparks people interaction. And so we've seen a lot more movement. Unfortunately, it's a lot of talking there, not a ton of brands who got a lot of meat underneath what they're saying, but there's definitely some. And so what I would say is that we've seen movement and we've seen progress just looking at the way that REVOLT has grown in the last two years, I would be a liar not to say that I don't see progress. That said, we are so far from where we need to be. We talk about it all the time. This simple stat to me is this, black culture drives the majority of pop culture, black media gets 1% of the dollars. Even when people came out with the commitment, some only made it the 2%, right, others 4, 5, 8 percent. How is it that we are 14% of the population, but the best ones can only get to eight? And that's like one, you know what I mean? How is it that we draw 50% of pop culture, but the best ones can only get to eight? So that gap is a gap that needs to be closed. And so I will give brands credit for movement, but I will tell them every single day that it's not enough. That there's more work to be done on their side.

Kerel  21:03  

Yeah, absolutely. I agree with you. And I think it's got to be companies like yours, gotta be companies like where I work at, at Group Black as well, too we have to be the leaders and continue to drive that message as well.

Detavio Samuels  21:18  

That's exactly right. That's why you see me do so many speaking engagements, because right now, it's like an incredible market development moment, right? So you and I are running around trying to develop this market that shouldn't be nascent. Black media has been around for 100 plus years, right, but it's still a very nascent industry. And so absolutely, it takes people like you and I, going into boardrooms, getting onto stages, and challenging brands to step up.

Kerel  21:43  

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And so with that said, right, things are going well at REVOLT. Hopefully, we will start to see brands spend more with us as we continue to challenge them. I know that REVOLT just recently launched a podcasting network as well too, what excites you about the future of what you're doing and the business as well, too?

Detavio Samuels  22:04  

Yeah. So what excites me is always going to be, like, the belief that change is near, the belief that we can create change. And so when we talk about REVOLT, we talked about our purpose of being to shift the narrative for black people globally. We're not just talking about black people in the US, but we're talking about the entire black diaspora. When we talk about our mission, how are we going to go about doing that? By building the world's largest, most powerful black storytelling engine, which you can't do without building an incredible new world, and ecosystem for black creators. So what excites me, when you think about things like the podcast network, before, let's say I was dealing with ten key creators, we've got Caresha, we've got DJ EFN, Noreaga, Jim Jones, right, you can run down the line, but it's like ten well known notable celebs. In order to build this company, we want to be working with 1000s of black creators, right, like our whole, my whole premise is, it shouldn't be five people in Hollywood who are black that can make stuff. Shonda, Ava, you know what I mean, like, Jordan, Kenya, there should be more than four, right? And so the podcast network gets me 40 new creators, and we're gonna double that and get to 80 creators, gonna double that, right? And what excites me is starting to see us scaling on our strategy, on our plan of building this new world for black creators, because I firmly believe that as we give black creators the microphone to tell our stories, we will build the engine and if we build that engine, we will change the way that people see us. And as I said at Summit, you can't change the way people treat us until you change the way people see us. That's what gets me excited because I feel like we're closer and closer to that dream.

Kerel  23:42  

Mmm. Where do you draw inspiration from?

Detavio Samuels  23:45  

Mmm, my funny joke would have been, usually I would have said Kanye, but he messed up yesterday. (laughs)

Kerel  23:54  

Listen, it ain't the first time he messed up and it won't be the last time. I'll just leave it at that.

Detavio Samuels  24:01  

Where do I get inspiration? I get inspiration from Sean Combs. Man, he is visionary, he is inspirational. I always say, like, he puts a battery in my back and tells me that nothing is impossible. He pushes me to dream bigger than I've ever been enabled or allowed to dream. And then I very much and much of my life has decided that I wanted to be a free black man. And being underneath Sean Combs and getting to watch him, he is one of the freest, if not the freest black man that I know. And so he gives me permission to be myself. Even if I'm walking into the boardrooms, talking to CEOs and telling them that they've got to be bold, like he's the one that gives me the permission to do that. So very much, he is my inspiration. And I'm also just inspired again by all of the black creators that are out there. It's like when you get a chance to talk to our people and some of the things that they're thinking about, it's insane. And so I get my inspiration from up top, which is my chairman, but then I also get my inspiration from the culture, yeah, the people, which is where we like to live.

Kerel  25:05  

You know, one of the things that you said there that I think is super important in any company with a company culture, and getting the most out of their employees and driving performance, you said that, that he gives you the ability to be yourself. And I think that that is so important, it can't be emphasized enough that the more people can be who they are, the better it is just for the company, for society for driving performance, and everything else in between.

Detavio Samuels  25:35  

Look, my very first interview with Sean Combs was during COVID, so it was a Zoom conversation. And I show up in like a blazer and a t-shirt and jeans. And he says to me, "What do I need to know about you that's not on your resume?" And my first answer is that I don't dress like this. Like when I'm in my office, I'm in sneakers and Jordans and my tattoos around and he was like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, timeout. Take the blazer off. Show me who you are, like, give me all of you." That was, like, our very first conversation, you know, what I mean. He basically made me de-robe and show him who I was, which then told me, this is a place that I can feel comfortable being myself.

Kerel  26:12  

I love it. I love it. Alright, fun question that I love asking every guest that we have on the podcast, right.

Detavio Samuels  26:19  

I'm nervous (laughs)

Kerel  26:20  

Don't be too nervous. But the question is, give me the top three apps that you use on your phone on a daily basis, but you can't name email or calendar or text messaging because those are just too boring.

Detavio Samuels  26:35  

Right, those are the givens. Okay, I got you. Now, I'm spending a lot of time on Signal, which is like WhatsApp but more encrypted. Lots of conversations are moving into that space as people are worried about privacy. I spend a lot of time on apps that help you create content for Instagram. My number one social network that I focus on is Instagram, so there's always, like, I use UNUM to help me plan out my feed. I use InShot to help kind of edit and create videos. So those, I'll put in that bucket. And then my third one that I probably would say that I do the most of, this is gonna be silly, I play a lot of games, man. Like, my brain is always going, so at nighttime, it's like, let me play this Candy Crush or, or let me play this Sudoku just to kind of zone out. So those are the three that I'll give you.

Kerel  27:23  

Yeah, Tetris is trending for me right now.

Detavio Samuels  27:25  

Is it really? (laughs) And did you - when did you pick Tetris back up? Because I'm assuming you played it as a kid, have you been playing it a lot?

Kerel  27:33  

I played it as a kid. I picked it back up about six months ago. And it just, to your point, I just needed something to help settle the brain down at night time, because you know, it's just running 1000 miles an hour, whether it be something at work, or my kids or whatever else, it's just running and I just needed something that just would help me, it does the trick.

Detavio Samuels  27:58  

Do you think we get a strategy benefit from it? That's one of the things I was like, I'm not playing a random game. You're not playing a random game, like Tetris is a strategy game. Sudoku is a strategy game, right? So in my mind, I also have this idea that while I'm allowing my brain to zone out, I'm also strengthening certain muscles.

Kerel  28:15  

Yeah, I never thought of it like that, but I would agree with you on that because I think regardless of whether it's, you know, what game it is, we still want to do something that is interesting to us, right? And strategy is a part of our life every day. So yeah, you're right, it's like, how can I get the pieces to fit? How can I get the most points and yeah, it still comes back to strategy. I never thought of it that way, but that's the awesome point.

Detavio Samuels  28:46  

My cheat code, I'm gonna zone out but while I'm zoning out, I'm gonna get better.

Kerel  28:49  

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Detavio, how can anyone that's listening to the podcast, how can they get in touch with you? How can they continue to follow you whether that be LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram, give us some of your handles.

Detavio Samuels  29:02  

Yeah, thank you. I'm the easiest person to find because there's only two, maybe three of us. So, my name is Detavio and if you do that on anything, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, you can find me. And then of course, the same is true for REVOLT. Would love to have folks follow REVOLT, @REVOLTTV on Instagram, because that's where we're very active. Oh, and on TikTok.

Kerel  29:24  

Gotcha. Okay, cool. Well, hey, thank you so much for joining me for the conversation. I really enjoyed it. I know our listeners will get a lot out of it. And for those of you listening, please check back and continue to follow Minority Report Podcast and look out for our next episode. Detavio, thank you very much.

Detavio Samuels  29:44  

Thank you for having me. Can't can't wait to promote and get this out to the world.

Kerel  29:47  

Absolutely. All right, man. You take care.